It's been a while since the “formal” ask, but time to check in on the “how's it going” type feedback (which has been...
It's been a while since the “formal” ask, but time to check in on the “how's it going” type feedback (which has been pretty valuable in sustaining the campaign over time). So how y'all feeling about the campaign?
Anything particular you want to see more of? Less of? Stay the course?
Suggestions? Wish lists?
Various half-crazed side campaign ideas keep popping into my head, but I am mostly staying the course for now.
Anything particular you want to see more of? Less of? Stay the course?
Suggestions? Wish lists?
Various half-crazed side campaign ideas keep popping into my head, but I am mostly staying the course for now.
I need some time to get back into the swing of the campaign. I still find myself asking "Wait, what's X? What?" a great deal, which I'm sure is frustrating for everyone.
ReplyDeleteI feel there is not enough Robo Dwarf in your games lately, but that is entirely my fault.
ReplyDeleteMike Davison Come back TERMEX! We miss you and your plans for ultimately murdering everyone!
ReplyDeleteNot to give too much away Mike Davison but there is a robodwarf mini-dungeon hidden somewhere in the HC.
ReplyDeleteWell now I must find it and take it for my own!
ReplyDeleteI'm really enjoying it. I think it's going great, so I'd say stay the course.
ReplyDeletethe feral shore mode is actually ticking off most of the right boxes for me
ReplyDeleteI've very much been enjoying our time in the FS, and I think it is a good idea to put any side campaign stuff to the side for now (or develop it for later).
ReplyDeleteI do feel like we're failing in some way, though, as we've yet to capture any significant hauls, ally ourselves with any natives, or really start to build a warband.
One final note: I loved that our trapmaking seneschal made suggestions on what to build, but he seems to have fallen silent. I'd love to get more input from him, and it would be neat to fill other advisory / bureaucratic positions with NPCs which could make suggestion, like KoDP or Sim City.
I'd love to get more input from him, and it would be neat to fill other advisory / bureaucratic positions with NPCs which could make suggestion, like KoDP or Sim City i really like this idea
ReplyDeleteI will raise one thing that I'd like to do at some point - it's a side thing, but one that's been lingering for a whiiiile now.
ReplyDeleteCan we have a Golden Barge raid session at some point? If I'm the only one who still dreams of taking that missing vessel then I can shut up about it, but at this point I think we actually have the resources to give it a try.
my current thinking on building a warband is that it is going to come mostly through A) spending money B) currying favor with the decade king so he'll send us men C) leveraging interest in kezmarok
ReplyDeleteso far most of the locals seem too capricious, cultish, or outright inhuman to be allied with in the normal sense
That is a great idea. (The council/advisor one.)
ReplyDeleteOne thing I see there is that setting up those positions may give the impression those roles have real meaning. By which I mean, more interesting NPC reactions may require giving up some amount of control over them, which is a virtue of our current arrangement.
such that if we want to build a warband we probably need to measure and divide our attention between clearing open contiguous land for settlers to live on (which right now, i think is along our E/W axis more than upriver), and finding rich sites to loot
ReplyDeleteDirectly to the West-Southwest of King's Ten is the bulk of the historical farmland. Examining the Ancient Map vs. what we've found so far though, there doesn't seem to be much correlation between ancient sites to modern ruins, unless there is some kind of antiCantonal inverse logic afoot here.
ReplyDeleteChris Kutalik am i correct in thinking that Kezmarok has to import a stubstantial portion of its food?
ReplyDeletecole long yes but between the fungal plantation caverns under the city and the grain growing outer islands under its control it covers basic sustenance. It does import in meat and other essentials.
ReplyDeleteso if we were looking to optimize our farmers for profitable exports, setting up Manzaranches might be our best bet?
ReplyDeleteHere's a KoDP moment for you. Okko will point out that the farming capacity of King's Ten is still pretty contained with a little under of 50 acres possible to be cultivated currently (drained lands and islands). That's not even really enough even for the 3 farming families (40 acres/family being a pretty normal freehold).
ReplyDeleteOkko thinks he can drain most of the entire hex with a rather ambitious project of levees and locks but it will cost 6000 suns mostly to hire a rather large group of laborers (and to house and feed them). The project will be done in stages over about a year.
Yes? No?
the 6000 suns needs to be all up front or is it paid out over the stages?
ReplyDeleteWhat's the group fund looking like? I'm for this, but we'd presumably want to have the dosh for one resurrection as reserve.
ReplyDeleteIf we can't muster that, then best to hold off for now.
also in regard to Humza Kazmi 's comment upstream, what was the last known report/location of the barge?
ReplyDeleteyet another question (feel free to say you're defraying any further questions til later since u have like a million) the 20.19 terrain type is "walkable swamp" and the 20.18 terrain type is "need a boat" swamp?
ReplyDeleteChris Kutalik Will draining 21.18 have a significant impact on the hydrology of surrounding hexes? (20.18, 22.18, 20.19, 22.19, 21.19)
ReplyDeleteMy assumption is that it would, though I have no idea how that would actually shake out (and no comment on whether that would be a good or a bad thing in the long term).
Anthony Picaro Okko says that "science maintains that the river spirits by nature seek equilibrium, so yes it would likely raise the water levels a few feet in the surrounding swampy hexes."
ReplyDeleteThat answer is entirely positive from where I'm standing. Let's do it.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to say that doing so seems like a bad idea. We want a fortress along the river, preferably with some locks we can use to control the flow of traffic. We should be working towards making it a port, not farmland.
ReplyDeleteObviously I'll bend to the will of the party, but I think we may be losing focus on our purpose here.
ReplyDeleteI will admit that I am more interested in agitating theoretical "river spirits" than I am in whatever farmland would be created.
ReplyDeleteAs an alternative offer, how much would it cost to build a raised road to a better farming location?
We might also want to work on assembling some skiffs for patrols to zoom around the swamp easier.
Speaking of river traffic, there is a larger question of the dam. Do we want to try and demolish it so that we can build something which we can control? Ideally we'd like to use the river as we originally intended, as a means for rapid movement through the FS and towards that mine to the North, and that means clearing obstructions.
ReplyDeleteI'd be very interested in both a raised road and some skiffs.
ReplyDeleteI think we should definitely look for land that is already arable, both because a year is a long time to wait to get started, and because there will hopefully be more than just these 3 families coming here to farm.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I also think we should begin on Okko's levy plan as soon as possible, because of my 2nd point above, and because it would be better to have the land around Kingsten drained, regardless.
Isris will contribute 2000 Suns to the project.
Robert Parker What's our purpose, as you're seeing it?
ReplyDeleteThe way I see it, if we get more arable land, we get:
a) more immigration
b) more support from the Decade-king
b1) more troops
And we don't have to move our folks over to the domovoi villages (uncleared, and sketchy due to making bargains w/ domovoi).
And yes, we need to get some skiffs/boats for swamp and river travel.
ReplyDelete(Which is why we need to either ally with or neutralize the grot-men, so that we can get upriver access. Mineward ho!)
Michael Moscrip Your second point above? I can't seem to find it.
ReplyDeletecole long according to Okko it could be paid in stages if "at least 4000 suns was paid upfront to secure the workforce and prepare for their impact". (He's talking about bringing in something like 300 laborers.)
ReplyDeleteBoth 20.18 and 20.19 are the same kind of cypress swamp lots of small islands between chest high (on the average) water pools.
Humza Kazmi the barge is believed to still be in the military harbor of the Despot of Ma'arb.
ReplyDeleteAhhh daring commando raid/heist movie reflexes triggered.
ReplyDeleteI am in favor of any occupation of the Domovillages (full or partial) because it is an incredibly significant shortcut to developing a colony slowly over a period of years.
ReplyDeleteWhatever weirdo curse (aka, adventure hook) we have to endure for that is likely worth the multiple seasons of boring infrastructure building we'd have to put in otherwise.
Chris Kutalik - in Okko's reclamation plan, the river would still pass by Kingsten, but with a more definite path, correct?
ReplyDeleteAnthony Picaro I think that we should certainly occupy them - I just don't want to be relying on them for our colony's agricultural output.
ReplyDeleteRobert Parker my 2nd point was "there will hopefully be more than just these 3 families coming here to farm"
ReplyDeleteMichael Moscrip yes levees would be built to channel it, which will make its level a bit higher and deeper too.
ReplyDeleteI'm with Anthony Picaro about the Domovillages.
ReplyDeleteHumza Kazmi Here are, as I understand it, our purposes:
1. Control river traffic to establish a steady route for ore to flow from the mine to the North.
2. Spread outward from there with a series of farming towns.
Now, I definitely think that we should clear land that is good for farming, and I think we already have potential access to those farms with the Domovoi. The only thing that has prevented us from moving in (to my mind) is that we lack the military might to hold the villages. To get more mercenaries, we need more capital, hence my pushing for dungeon crawls.
Humza Kazmi Currently, I'd favor using the villages as a seed to grow the initial colony around, expanding into other farmlands as appropriate.
ReplyDeleteSomething that may aid decisions here: How difficult would it be to find a Pahrusky priest of Radegast to bring on as consultant in these matters? As the Pahr hospitality god, I assume he would have dominion over this transaction (or at least some information on it).
Michael Moscrip I totally agree, but it seems like we could just find some decent farmlands instead of going through the hassle of draining this part of the swamp.
ReplyDeleteAnthony Picaro How difficult would it be to find a Pahrusky priest of Radegast to bring on as consultant in these matters?
ReplyDeleteRelatively easy if you sent out an incentive.
Alright cool let's put him in the 2nd position on the tribal ring, next to Okko.
ReplyDeleteHumza Kazmi I think we're all pretty focused on the FS right now, although I'd like to do the GB at some point. Perhaps you could do some downtime recon and let us know what you find?
ReplyDeleteChris Kutalik Oh yeah this thread had an actual question or something it was asking. My perspective:
ReplyDeleteThe Feral Shore is a near-ideal balance of opportunities so far (dungeon, small site, weird village, hexploration, random encounter, diverse terrain, hints at deeper mysteries, etc), but it is difficult to say more on that as we haven't seen all that much of it.
Some thing I'd like more of (not directed specifically at DM or players):
Less costly/labor-intensive methods of colony growth: Incorporating pre-existing peoples and facilities instead of having to build/import them. We've done a decent job of this so far taking over the dam, and we can do it again with the Domovillages. I'd like to see this applied to populations as well though. The Grotpersons & Norkerth don't seem that well-suited to permanent vassalage/enslavement, but it might be possible to pull a Cortés gambit on the Moondudes if we can find out more about their tribal structures. That's the sort of opportunity I'm looking out for, and I hope they keep popping up.
Anthony Picaro I am in agreement. I think synthesizing local cultures is a good, although I would say the introduction of settlers into the mix can only benefit us (not only from boosting our numbers, but also acting as a civilizing / hegemonic influence).
ReplyDeleteI will say that I'm hoping for situations where we can cut deals and negotiate with other cultures, rather than conquistadoring our way through them all the time.
ReplyDeleteWhen we find cultures that sacrifice and/or eat people, Isris would prefer to destroy them.
ReplyDeleteMichael Moscrip No disagreement there. I'd just like to encounter some group who weren't utter bastards, y'know? (I guess the polymufs might qualify but I wasn't there for that.)
ReplyDeleteI'm totally in favor of cutting deals and negotiation when the opportunity presents itself, and I'm with you in hoping that it does. (Though I'm not really picky about negotiating with cannibals / ritual murderers / utter bastards / etc.)
ReplyDeleteHumza Kazmi I have learned that such a thing is rarer than charity from a libertarian.
ReplyDeleteRobert Parker Sure, and I do appreciate the whole "NPCs are to be aggravating" business (http://hillcantons.blogspot.com/2012/05/dmg-ordered-me-to-show-my-work-and.html)
ReplyDeleteBut having negotiation options and the chance to make bona fide alliances (that aren't with Gramma Gaya) is something I'd like to see in the campaign, so I thought I'd point it out.
Man, that post is so good, Chris Kutalik.
ReplyDeleteI do agree that finding some Gramma Gaya or Patriarch or High Priestess equivalents would be nice, but I've learned not to expect it.
Robert Parker My thought on that is that we have to import them, but in order for such NPCs to become powerful allies we have to resist the urge to control them as direct subordinates, allowing them to develop as resources.
ReplyDeletei think it would benefit us to prioritize settling already arable land with farmers over expensively reclaiming a little land with swamp
ReplyDelete(e.g. 19.19-18.20.; 23.18/24.18/24.19 also a possibility, but 19.19 is closer to the domovoi villages and furthermore the mushroom forests may be some kind of super-soil if cleared)
remember Okko has his own interests and priorities and may be wanting to take on a big engineering project out of boredom and just drain our money in a huge boondoggle. i am skeptical of the water-spirit theory; that may be just okko's just-so-story for how water levels work.
i think the more imported farmers we have, the more we stabilize the region, and the more leverage we have to request more soldiers from the twin decade kings, and then more leverage over locals
I am in complete agreement with cole long, especially remember Okko has his own interests and priorities.
ReplyDeleteYES. Dude is an engineer; of course he wants to push for an engineering project. Like KoDP, we should not trust him blindly to act in our interests.
i am skeptical of the water-spirit theory; that may be just okko's just-so-story for how water levels work.
ReplyDeleteNot gonna lie, I thought that was just fancy stage dressing for "the water levels will equalize" and it didn't occur to me that it could actually affect water spirits. :P
I am 99% confident that the Okko's river spirits don't exist (but separate river beings with different rules may). Lazzaro's interest was piqued at the prospect of raising the water level of the swamp for both mundane & mystical-magical reasons.
ReplyDeleteAnthony Picaro Such as?
ReplyDeleteSuch as easier skiff traffic, or maintaining the Weird of the hexes.
ReplyDeleteHaving Kingsten on dry land surrounded by deeper water also makes it more defensible.
ReplyDeleteMichael Moscrip Well, I certainly think that further construction should be done on Kingsten, and directing the flow of the river is good (as well as being able to stop traffic with a series of locks and dams). Instead of focusing on farmland, though, why don't we put the money into expanding Kingsten with an eye towards reinforcing it as a fortress and as a port?
ReplyDeleteI agree that fortress port is the way to go with the town itself. I'm thinking about the land around it though. I'm torn just now, I'm afraid, and should probably think about it some more while I watch the rest of Duck Dynasty.
ReplyDeleteOn one hand, the best use for the killzone around a fortification would be agriculture. But if it's a choice of what to do with the money, and how it would be best utilised, I'm now thinking that upgrading the fort itself with better defenses and room for more troops would probably be a superior next-step.
Robert Parker Missed the bit about the Fortunate Dam earlier. This is kinda long-term, but:
ReplyDeleteWhy demolish it and build a new thing when we could just use it? It has immense value as a defensive structure.
The river seems navigable at least to the point of King's Ten (if not all the way to the dam itself). We could designate King's Ten as "Gateway to the Feral Shore" and require all trade to pass through there, allowing exclusively riverine barges to do all the work from the dam to points north.
Then all we'd need is a system for getting goods from one side of the dam to the other, which could be accomplished with a crane or elevator or even just teams of oxen. Probably faster, much much cheaper, and doesn't allow anything to sneak by us upriver. It'd also be a great place to collect tariffs or service fees.
Immediate downsides I see are it's more irritating to potential traders (restricted access), assumes we keep the land south of the dam as impenetrable swamp (as that's actually a benefit in this scenario) as opposed to something more useful, and allows people to see a giant wall of skulls associated with us. But I think the benefits may outweigh those.
Chris Kutalik So yeah, I think we wanna put feelers out for a Radhošt-man, possibly other representatives of the Pahrtheon as well.
ReplyDeleteRobert Parker, you've been working semi-related angles, would Manzafrain have a line on such a thing? If not, probably Tazrun is best equipped to locate and recruit such a person (tagging Evan Elkins).
Sorry, I'm still trying to play catch-up with this thread.
ReplyDeleteChris Kutalik I will say I've really been liking the Feral Shore. I will say that I've been trying to make some in-character goals (which you may have noticed) but I'm having problems in the funds department - which seems to be a fairly common problem around here.
Anthony Picaro I may be able to find someone, and I'd definitely be up for setting up this place as a holdout for the Pahr pantheon.
Which reminds me: Chris Kutalik I don't think you wrote up that thing we talked about.
Anthony Picaro Those are extremely good points, but my concerns are basically twofold:
ReplyDelete1. Dam Skulls: That is some freaky shit, and is hard to attract families to Skull Dam.
2. Skully Dam: The whole 'skully' vibe makes me think that is could be enchanted in some negative way that freaks me out.
If we knew that is was basically just a dam, then I think we could cover the skull motif up.
ReplyDeleteAlso, re: priests, nope. Good idea, though.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking to just explain it away.
ReplyDelete"And here on the left is the Wall of Fallen Ancestors, built to memorialize those predecessor peoples who died preserving this land from the Weird. This style is characteristic of builder Okko the Misplaced, whose connections to that time lend the work a dramatic and confrontational air." or some shit.
As to the horrible magics: Hey maybe. Will look into it.
Sounds good. Or "it scares away evil spirits."
ReplyDelete