Showing my work (I have intentionally not listed several things as I am holding those cards for the time being).
Showing my work (I have intentionally not listed several things as I am holding those cards for the time being).
The Hill Cantons cosmology inspiration mix
Jack Vance novels (absurdist satire of religious mores)
Poul Anderson's The Broken Sword and Three Hearts, Bachman's Dragon article (the Weird and its cosmic juxtaposition to human civilization, the waxing/waning of gods being tied to the amount of human worship and the reduction of “Faerie”)
Leiber's Lankhmar stories (more satire, petty gods and apotheosis)
Early Renaissance Catholicism, Mediterranean hero-cults, Hellenistic and Roman sun-cults, Theosophy, Jewish neoplatinism and mystical traditions, Piper's Lord Kalvan, Early Christian theological disputes (Sun Lord)
Hussites, Mormon feminism, William Blake's poetic mythology around the Triple Goddess (Celestial Lady)
Slavic pagan mythology (Pahr Old Gods and a number of godlings)
Hindu and Native American creation myths (World Turtle)
M.A.R Barker's Create a Religion In Your Spare Time for Fun and Profit and Mitlanyal (general inspiration, the concept of distinct aspects for gods)
Gygax's article on Five-Fold Alignment from Dragon mag.
Robert Graves's White Goddess and Mary Renault's Theseus books (the Mistress of the Mountains)
Occultist and Slavic Neopagan theories (Hyperborean origins)
Clark Ashton Smith Hyperborean cycle (Youndeh and other elements)
The Eternals comic Jack Kirby (space gods, duh)
The Hill Cantons cosmology inspiration mix
Jack Vance novels (absurdist satire of religious mores)
Poul Anderson's The Broken Sword and Three Hearts, Bachman's Dragon article (the Weird and its cosmic juxtaposition to human civilization, the waxing/waning of gods being tied to the amount of human worship and the reduction of “Faerie”)
Leiber's Lankhmar stories (more satire, petty gods and apotheosis)
Early Renaissance Catholicism, Mediterranean hero-cults, Hellenistic and Roman sun-cults, Theosophy, Jewish neoplatinism and mystical traditions, Piper's Lord Kalvan, Early Christian theological disputes (Sun Lord)
Hussites, Mormon feminism, William Blake's poetic mythology around the Triple Goddess (Celestial Lady)
Slavic pagan mythology (Pahr Old Gods and a number of godlings)
Hindu and Native American creation myths (World Turtle)
M.A.R Barker's Create a Religion In Your Spare Time for Fun and Profit and Mitlanyal (general inspiration, the concept of distinct aspects for gods)
Gygax's article on Five-Fold Alignment from Dragon mag.
Robert Graves's White Goddess and Mary Renault's Theseus books (the Mistress of the Mountains)
Occultist and Slavic Neopagan theories (Hyperborean origins)
Clark Ashton Smith Hyperborean cycle (Youndeh and other elements)
The Eternals comic Jack Kirby (space gods, duh)
Nice mix :) I was pretty sure I could see some Issek in there.
ReplyDeleteBut the Romans didn't worship the sun! http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hL7HogamDVc/S-swOCDPIWI/AAAAAAAABm8/XQatVMf8yoU/s1600/Bread_and_Circuses_228.jpg
ReplyDeleteSpeaking about that I found a mention of a "son of the sun" divinity in Indonesian mythology. It cracked me up.
ReplyDeleteIs the Lord Kalvan stuff the inspiration for the Sun-Lord clergy having gunpowder access then?
ReplyDeleteI was mentioning to Robert Parker last night that a lot of the stuff re: the Weird/Borderlands/Core interaction reminds me of Aubec turning Chaos to Order through his will in the one Elric short story, but that might be more general D&D background at this point I guess.
Humza Kazmi yes exactly. That was originally supposed to be a major theme but then I thought gunpowder was a bad idea outside of the Corelands.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely Moorcock and the Earl Aubec story (as are the Corum first three books) were influences too, though in many ways they are kind of less so than the Anderson books that influenced him.
A heady brew, to be certain.
ReplyDeleteChris Kutalik Can you elaborate on your thinking for gunpowder being a bad idea outside the Corelands?
ReplyDeleteGiven that the blessed petards are on the equipment list, and every once in a while an NPC will have an arquebus (like that hireling), it feels weird to have guns present in-setting but completely useless anywhere that we are going to be actually playing. (I mean we could theoretically go to the Core, but that seems unlikely since it's all static and boring and such.)
(Thinking out loud here, not advancing this as a setting suggestion - what would things look like if the only way to construct firearms was a smaller version of the Turko-Fey guns w/ fire elementals, or something equally Weird?)
Although I love guns in D&D, I'm of an opposite mind to Humza Kazmi on this issue; guns failing to work outside of the Corelands is a very distinctive setting element that I appreciate.
ReplyDeleteOf course, instead of an on/off dynamic, you could create a continuum of effects. This could be something as simple as a high chance of the gunpowder failing to ignite / the gun jamming / misfires when in the Borderlands (as reality becomes shakier) or something truly Weird. Maye guns get variable (and potentially dangerous effects) in the Borderlands, like releasing fire elementals, being capable of firing only reliquary bone fragments from Sun Saints, or even becoming more serpentine and dragonlike, with it becoming a full-on intelligent fire breathing beast in the Weird.
Humza Kazmi Technically gunpowder can work in the borderlands but it is highly unstable. So much that so many people just don't take the risk. A petard might be worth the effort.
ReplyDeleteI didn't want to deal with the balance issues and the broader implications of gunpowder use. But the Last Bastion game with its flintlocks and war-arquebus has definitely allayed some of those fears. Really it hasn't seemed that to be all that bad at all in the three sessions I've run.
I really like that last idea. The technology and knowledge is there for firearms it just lacks the propellant so yeah some funkified thing like that what you suggest might be an interesting thing to experiment with.
Robert Parker I guess I should clarify - I'm not opposed to guns failing to work elsewhere, just asking about Chris Kutalik 's thought process in putting that together. (It just seems like it's functionally equivalent to not having them in-setting at all, y'know?)
ReplyDeleteHumza Kazmi Well, I've never seen them on an equipment list, so I assumed they were only a bit of flavor.
ReplyDeleteWell he has included petards on there before, and those technically wouldn't work in the Weird, n'est-ce pas?
ReplyDeleteCorrect but they work yet are highly unstable in the borderlands.
ReplyDeleteThat's fair. I had assumed that it was not a question of gunpowder producing explosions, but rather a limit of technological advancement possible outside the Core. Like, steam exists but you can't have a steam engine in the Weird.
ReplyDeleteLike, I imagine early Chinese rockets and fire arrows would work fine (although I may be wrong about that).
ReplyDeleteIt is entirely possible to Bind Fire Sandestin (unless this has changed since the last time I asked), but Lazzaro has not done significant work on that front. Locating ourselves in the Weird may assist that research as well. The problem there is we'd have to locate a Fire Sandestin to bind, and the remainder of them haven't been much heard from since they scattered into the Kežmarok ruins. Perhaps they made a new home in the Rubicand Caverns of Oldest Lhoma.
ReplyDeleteAnthony Picaro Good point! (It took me a second to connect "fire sandestin" with "the fire spirits powering the T-F cannon").
ReplyDeleteI don't think that harnessing one of those guys is what we would quite need for smaller stuff though - they must have been powerful to power the T-F guns; I'd guess that the spell to bind them would be 5th or 7th level or something.
Quick & dirty idea that preserves the mechanical status quo: Treat Summon & Bind Fire Sandestin as a better duration version of Flame Arrow that must be cast on a specially prepared arquebus. Or you can send the little bastard to set some shit on fire.
ReplyDeleteMost chemical reactions are inert in the Weird. Also generally the more complicated and large scale of a human invention the more likely it is to either not work or produce bizarre results in the Weird.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteAssuming it's possible, of course.
Heh. I'd set BC to doing some spell research but that requires funds and I burned through all of mine to get to L5.
ReplyDeleteOn the original topic, this is a broader set of material than I would have expected. I find it interesting that you are able to separate out cosmological concerns from mundane ones (not seeing much difference between the two in fantasy, myself).
ReplyDeleteSerious question: How much additional material would it take to compose an (updated from the original) Appendix N for the current HC campaign itself? It looks fairly complete to me, minus say a few films and some targeted military & cultural history.
Humza Kazmi Normally I'd volunteer that we could divert some of the group fund (currently at ~6500 suns), but I think we're still testing out how must direct investment the Feral Shore requires. Probably another couple weeks before we know that for sure.
ReplyDeleteThis one? http://hillcantons.blogspot.com/2012/03/hill-cantons-appendix-n.html
ReplyDeletePretty easy if so and yes it is a vague dividing line.
::nod:: Absolutely. I support having strong cash reserves for emergency needs (mercs! supplies! healers!) so that's a better place for the funds than speculative spell research.
ReplyDeleteMissing from the list is Lloyd Alexander's Prydain books.
ReplyDeleteI was very excited about my ideas on reliquary and serpent guns, so I decided to stat some up:
ReplyDeleteReliquary Guns: These necromantic pistols work only in the Weird and are potent weapons of Law. In the place of gunpowder and bullets, it requires the powdered bones of civilized men and fragments of beings of pure Law, such as Saints, Angels, and Eld. When fired, they inflict only 1 point of damage to Men and Lawful beings, but explode on contact with creatures of the Weird, radiating searing white light which produces horrific damage. The damage is variable, based on whose bones are used as ammunition.
Minor: Blood Libel Saint, Cleric, Autarch: 2d6
Medium: Patriarch, Major Saint, Angel: 2d8
Major: Godlings, Named Angel: 2d10
A well-preserved skeleton can (in the hands of a trained bonesmith) produce 2d6 bullets, while a decrepit or damaged skeleton will produce 2d3.
Because of their high demand in the Borderlands, bullets and powder are available from shady merchants at exorbitant prices.
Reliquary Gun: 400 suns
Minor Bullets: 600 suns per 12
Serpent Guns: These weapons were a tightly held secret of an elite Hyperborean regiment known as Dragoons; rumor holds that these soldiers were dispatched to the frontiers of the empire to quash incursions of the "Rising Weird". As they patrolled the borderland and frequently were called upon to delve into the "High Weird", these mounted calvary required weapons which would reliably function outside of Hyperborea itself. Hence, Serpent Guns were developed.
Only a handful of these weapons exist today, and craftspeople capable of crafting them are rarer still. In Core lands they appear to be handsome long rifles with a carefully inlaid gold dragon motif. Their true nature only becomes apparent, however, when they are brought into the Weird. When in the Borderlands they begin to take on a more rounded, organic look as the serpent begins to coil, wielding the weapon requires the shooter to slip their arms into the dragon's claws. This transformative process becomes complete once the Serpent Gun is brought into the True Weird, however, becoming a living golden four-legged serpent which twists and coils around the arms and shoulders of its user, belching fire instead of firing bullets.
These Serpent Guns are highly intelligent and opinionated, each having adapted to the passions and personality quirks of their original owners. As such, they should be treated as intelligent swords, but instead of possessing their new owner they will instead attempt to consume those who are too weak to master them, attacking as a 6 HD creature which can only be hurt by magic.
Serpent Guns must be fed radioactive materials at least once a month to continue to function, otherwise they become inert. They do not require normal ammunition when in dragon form.
Core Damage: 1d10, explodes on a "10" (once only), 3 rounds to reload
Weird Damage: 2d4
The process of creating a Serpent Gun is an expensive and involved one, and has fallen out of favor since the Hyperborean Empire dissolved. If a gunsmith capable of creating such a device can be found, it requires a month-long ritual to prepare the "skin" of the dragon, a boiling vat of liquid gold and alchemical reagents (costing 5000 suns). Then, the would-be owner of the Serpent Gun must defeat a suitably Howardian serpent in hand-to-hand combat, wrestling it into submission and submerging it into the vat of gold. Should this be successfully be accomplished the weapon will become attuned to its owner, responding only to its master's touch and gaining an aspect of his or her personality. It is only with the original owner's death that the serpent will consider another master, and only if the new master is found acceptable.
Robert Parker I think we should test these out. It looks like we have another excuse to shank the Patriarch now! :D
ReplyDeleteAlso, it is incredibly annoying how there is no longer a "show more" option in G+... Only
ReplyDeleteif you click on the 29 Comments can you read the entire post.
The way that certain views allow for multiple embedded scrollbars, destroying any sense of flow manipulated by mousewheel, is also great.
ReplyDelete